I'm not going to add to the clown-car of posts below through a series of replies, since by now they would be ignored. I find myself in the awkward position of agreeing with Cam's logic to oppose the decision, and then not wanting to be so affiliated with him when he uses the brick-bat of personal attacks to really hammer it all home.
Anyway, with Dan's resignation, and his clear disinterest in continuing to back 3.75. Can we do the sensible thing as aleague choose to ignore this particular finding of the DC? We no longer have 3 committee members willing to back it (and it would not have passed with a clear majority of GMs by the way--Cam, myself, Mike and Chris have all argued for 3.5 [or at least against 3.75] on the blog, and Brian has confirmed Corey, Collin and Bob would also all be against it in a vote. That's 7 GMs out of 12 by my count.)
I do want to say, that after weeks of what I thought was my vociferously arguing against 3.75 and finding a clear majority of GMs saying they didn't favour it. After beginning to plan my draft list with 3.5 as the goalie base. After arguing for a new system with the logic that it was generating similar stats to 3.5--which was unambiguously supported as being the superlatively accurate assessment of goalies by people on both sides of that particular debate. After having discussed this ad nauseam with Bob. After having my concern that 3.75 was too complicated a number to use rationally aired to some end with Rob. After all that...
After all that... it is personally hurtful to me that I'm being told the base number I adamantly opposed and rejected--and still do, for several different reasons--is being handed down to me from the DC. Blessed wisdom from Sinai. No consultation with me. No rationale other than "it is a good number, and no one objects but Cam." Which I guess means I'm invisible, or my concerns are easily dismissed by my betters in this league.
But, moving forward. Since this whole stat thing really has been well discussed--but I'm willing to do it again if anyone missed it the first time--I suggest that for 2008-09, unless a new DC convenes and backs 3.75 again--it be determined by vote, by all GMs, at the ED. And that we only propose for 3.5 this year, since that's the only number clearing the majority territory we need to get the change. (And, if it fails--we go with magic number 4, again.)
I will still be seconding Mike's Win-Loss system, since it's still superior--but it remains to be seen if Mike still wants it presented.
Well--that's my vent. Thanks for bearing it out.
Richard.
8 comments:
Vent heard - and as I said in posting re. DC nomination, Richard - I have read that you prefer 3.5 to 3.75 but didn't think you were strongly against 3.75 (instead, I read that you were strongly for a new system all together).
If we put the goalie stats issue to a vote - then I think 9/12 GMs first need to vote to cancel the DC decision followed by 9/12 GMs then voting for 3.5 ELSE we stay at 4.
Or the DC can waive their decision and simply go to a vote, effective for this season, of 9/12 GMs going with 3.5 or 4. AND I forgot to add that we can also have a vote of 9/12 GMs wanting to change system all together and go for the Win / shut-out method.
Hey Richard et al,
I hear what you are saying, and certainly do not wish to cause disillusionment amongst our GMs.
To clarify my own position, and those attributed to others, however:
1) While I submitted an alternate way to consider scoring goalies, I do still back 3.75 under the current formula
2) Since the DC was unanimous in its support of 3.75, you already have 3/12 GMs in support of that figure, so I believe you may be misattributing some people's opinions in your post
3) There is clearly a lot of uncertainty over what is needed to establish the rules, DC role, etc etc for the 08-09 season (Specifically is 9/12 sufficient, or do we need 12/12, and which level of consensus for which changes?)
I would venture to say that the first order of business for whoever is taking on the task is to determine what actions are needed, which need a vote, and what level of consensus is required, when said changes would take effect, then ASK the GMs rather than speculate on what John said Matt thinks Joe wants :-)
Think process first, then tackle the issues...
BTW to clarify: The DC has had the role of determining the "magic number" for goalie stats for some time. I appreciate you feel this is an issue which merits the voice of the entire pool not just the DC, but to date the rules have given this role to the DC.
By all means propose that this role be given over to league vote, but please don't feel left out of a decision that (rightly or wrongly) lies with the DC as per the Covenant - your opinion is important and not being ignored, but to date this has not been a decision for popular vote...
"to date this has not been a decision for popular vote..."
Because while all traditions are equal, some are more equal than others.
Why So Serious?
Hey - if the pool chooses to say the DC should no longer have a role in goalie stats, then we'd have to vote on stats changes every year (unless we come up with a permanent solution). Uggh.
The way I see it there are at least 4 who would vote against 3.5 and a few who really do not care whether is is 3.5 or not. So is see it as 3.5 would not pass for this year either and then we are still using 4.0.
3.75 was decided on unanimously by Dan, Rob and Bob. Yes Bob did sometimes say he would support 3.5 but he was never against the 3.75 except for the disencion it caused.
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